Do Thomists kick sand in your face at the beach?
Are you intimidated by Chippendale strippers?
We have a solution to your "little problem"!
If you've always wanted to study Catholic theology, but didn't want to get too deeply influenced by the "religious right", then come and study at Chris West's Theology of the Body Institute and earn college credit at Creighton University at the same time!
As everyone knows, Creighton University is a world-class Catholic theological institution!
Indeed, it is currently the home of the first Catholic theologians since Father Richard McBrien to have their book formally condemned by the USCCB!
But these Creighton U. theology professors didn't just get any work condemned!
They went out of their way to show off their credentials in sexual ethics!
Yep, using the same personalistic philosophy espoused by Chris West, Drs. TODD A. SALZMAN and MICHAEL G. LAWLER, not only reached the same conclusions Chris did about the moral rectitude of anal sex foreplay, they took West's arguments to their logical conclusions! They "[blew] the lid off the common idea of what Christianity teaches, and demonstrate that Christianity isn't an invitation to starve [at the table of love]!"
"For the authors of The Sexual Person, a sexual act of virtually any physical description, whether it be vaginal sex, oral sex, anal sex, or masturbation, can be justified if this act has a suitable meaning in the minds of those involved. For them, the only relevant question is whether "a particular sexual act facilitates or frustrates the partner's human flourishing, their becoming more affectively and interpersonally human" (68, see 156)."Or, as has been "explained" elsewhere:
"In other words, in order to determine what is good, we only need to ask a simple question: Does this sexual attitude, thought or action truly image God's free, total, faithful, fruitful love?"Yes, you heard that right!
Now YOU can get college credit from the same institute whose theologians have had their work on sexual ethics condemned by one of the most liberal bishops' conferences in the world, the Democrat Party at prayer, the USCCB!
Yes, if you act now, you not only get Chris West's peculiarly personal version of personalist theology, you also get college credits accredited from Creighton University, the same university whose theological faculty just got a smack-down from all the bishops of the United States!
This amazing offer won't last long so act as soon as you can!
Remember, for the low, low low, early-bird price of $1045, our heavily discredited set of highly suspect Catholic theologians can put you well on your way to earning a degree in Catholic theology!
Now, sure for the extra $350 you spend on college credit over and above the cool GRAND you just dropped on the TOB Institute, you will find that “there will inevitably be some who are offended” by Creighton's non-traditional presentation of Catholic teaching on sexuality. "But you'd probably be surprised as to who they are, [they're] usually from the religious right."
Don't let the "religious right" kick sand in your face any longer!
If you join now, you'll not only learn how to turn Thomistic theology on its head, you'll be taught how to do it by internationally recognized experts in the field!
These people are WORLD-CLASS!
And for nearly $1500, you will be permitted to actually breathe the same room air they exhale!
But don't swoon yet!
That's not all.
If you act now, the first fifty callers will also get a FREE set of Sham-Wows.
And yes, you'll need those Sham-Wows because you'll be wiping down your own personal set of... Ginsu Knives!
Yes this AMAZING deal comes at NO EXTRA COST and includes FREE SHIPPING!
That's right - when you come to the TOB Institute, we'll pack your suitcases full of
- Sham-Wows,
- Ginsu Knives,
- West's Good News recommendations on anal sex,
- a special edition of Michael Waldstein's famous translation of JP II from the original Greek (it was Greek to Waldstein, anyway), signed by Mike with a special forward written in Swahili,
- and an especially autographed edition of The Sexual Person!
Well, since you insist, we added ONE MORE VALUABLE ITEM!
In the spirit of true college fraternities (and sororities) we'll have a rock concert afterwards!
With Chris doing his best imitation of Hefner doing karaoke!
Throw your panties on the stage for Chris!
He eats this stuff up!
We take credit cards and money orders, and cold, hard cash.*
*Partial refunds available for right-wing Puritanical Manichean prudes who are insecure in their own sexuality. If you are unsure if you qualify for a refund, just ask Chris - he'll instantly read your soul and infallibly assess your state of spiritual maturity. Refunds consist of sufficient bus fare to return you to whatever spiritual hell-hole produced a divisive rat like you. All refunds given in a spirit of loving Christian charity.
32 comments:
Free total faithful fruitful love is not West's it is actually spoken of in Humane Vitae. I heard Katrina Zeno point that one out. So, thanks for validating it.
Well, then either you or Katrina have a duty to provide a cite, right?
The closest I'm aware of is the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, which calls for “full,conscious and active participation” in the liturgy, but that isn't the same thing, is it?
So, go ahead and provide your cite and I'll be happy to consider it. But until you do, I'm going to assume that the citation is mutilated, because it so frequently is with Westians.
Humanae Vitae: Pope John Paul VI's 1868 encyclical on human life. It is most famous for its clear and definitive teaching on why contraception is immoral and sinful, explaining that it separates the sexual act from one of its intrinsic purposes: procreation.
In persona Christi: A Latin phrase meaning "in the person of Christ"; describes the identity and actions of a priest, particularly when he celebrates the sacraments and preaches the Word of God.
Mary's Fiat: The Blessed Virgin Mary's "yes" to the Lord, which demonstrated her faithful obedience to God's will.
Masturbation: The deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure ... Masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action" (CCC 2352). Instead of training a person in faithfulness in order to make a gift of oneself, masturbation trains a person in selfishness.
Natural Law: The law or purpose that God has "written" naturally into the hearts, minds, and bodies of men and woman.
One-flesh union: The loving embrace of a married couple through sexual intercourse, in which they become "one flesh," (see Gn 2:24). The Scriptures teach that this union prefigures the total communion we will have with God in heaven (see Eph 5:21-32).
"Total" love: Love without strings attached that holds nothing back. In total love, you make a gift of yourself to another - total self-donation.
Ok, Annie, so you haven't cited the Humanae Vitae passage which uses the phrase "free, total, faithful, fruitful love."
So, can you try again?
Where is it?
Because if you can't cite that phrase - which you say is HV's, not West's - then you are not only wrong, you are AGAIN confusing Chris West's phrasing with Magisterial phrasing.
Need I mention that Chris West is NOT the Magisterium?
What is it with Westians that they think this layman is the Pope?
Working on it, your blog comment box is not letting me get everything in. Not to mention I have an 11 year old asking about lego league stuff...work with me here.
"It is frequently asserted that contraception, if made safe and available to all, is the most effective remedy against abortion. The Catholic Church is them accused of actually promoting abortion, because she obstinately continues to teach the moral unlawfulness of contraception. When looked at carefully, this objection is clearly unfounded. It may be that many people use contraception with a view to excluding the subsequint temptation of abortion. But the negative values inherent in the 'contraceptive mentality' -which is very different from responsible parenthood, lived in respect for the full truth of the conjugal act -are such that they in fact strengthen this temptation when an unwanted life is conceived" (Evangelium Vitae, 13).
On the Language of the Body Expressing Wedding Vows: "In the reflections on the sacramental sign, it has already been said several times that it is based on the language of the body reread in truth. It concerns a truth once affirmed at the beginning of the marriage, when the newlyweds, promising each other 'to be always faithful ... and to love and honor each other all the says of their life,' become ministers of marriage as a sacrament of the Church. ... In fact, the man and the woman, living in the marriage 'until death,' repropose uninterruptedly, in a certain sense, that sign that they made on their wedding day, through the liturgy of the sacrament" (July 11, 1984).
Anthropology: The overall study of man and what is means to be a human person.
Contraception: Every action before, during, or after sexual intercourse that deliberately attempts to impede its procreative potential. These acts are intrinsically evil and are always morally unacceptable (CCC 2370).
"Faithful" love: Love that is committed. That commitment guides all other actions. You keep your promises once you have made them, no matter how your feelings may change.
"Free" love: Love that is not controlled or manipulated by another person or by a disordered desire. No one is forcing you to love. You have freely because you want to.
"Fruitful" love: Love that is life-giving, because it is free, total, and faithful. It is open to procreation in the physical realm and is life-giving in the spiritual and emotional realm as well.
Homosexual acts: Actions of genital stimulation with a person of the same sex. According to the Catechism, "homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered' and 'contrary to the natural law ... Under no circumstances can they be approved" (CCC 2357).
Homosexuality: The attraction that a man or woman has to a member of the same sex. The homosexual inclination is disordered but not sinful in and of itself, since it is not freely chosen.
"It is frequently asserted that contraception, if made safe and available to all, is the most effective remedy against abortion. The Catholic Church is them accused of actually promoting abortion, because she obstinately continues to teach the moral unlawfulness of contraception. When looked at carefully, this objection is clearly unfounded. It may be that many people use contraception with a view to excluding the subsequint temptation of abortion. But the negative values inherent in the 'contraceptive mentality' -which is very different from responsible parenthood, lived in respect for the full truth of the conjugal act -are such that they in fact strengthen this temptation when an unwanted life is conceived" (Evangelium Vitae, 13).
On the Language of the Body Expressing Wedding Vows: "In the reflections on the sacramental sign, it has already been said several times that it is based on the language of the body reread in truth. It concerns a truth once affirmed at the beginning of the marriage, when the newlyweds, promising each other 'to be always faithful ... and to love and honor each other all the says of their life,' become ministers of marriage as a sacrament of the Church. ... In fact, the man and the woman, living in the marriage 'until death,' repropose uninterruptedly, in a certain sense, that sign that they made on their wedding day, through the liturgy of the sacrament" (July 11, 1984).
Anthropology: The overall study of man and what is means to be a human person.
Contraception: Every action before, during, or after sexual intercourse that deliberately attempts to impede its procreative potential. These acts are intrinsically evil and are always morally unacceptable (CCC 2370).
"Faithful" love: Love that is committed. That commitment guides all other actions. You keep your promises once you have made them, no matter how your feelings may change.
"Free" love: Love that is not controlled or manipulated by another person or by a disordered desire. No one is forcing you to love. You have freely because you want to.
"Fruitful" love: Love that is life-giving, because it is free, total, and faithful. It is open to procreation in the physical realm and is life-giving in the spiritual and emotional realm as well.
Homosexual acts: Actions of genital stimulation with a person of the same sex. According to the Catechism, "homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered' and 'contrary to the natural law ... Under no circumstances can they be approved" (CCC 2357).
Homosexuality: The attraction that a man or woman has to a member of the same sex. The homosexual inclination is disordered but not sinful in and of itself, since it is not freely chosen.
"It is frequently asserted that contraception, if made safe and available to all, is the most effective remedy against abortion. The Catholic Church is them accused of actually promoting abortion, because she obstinately continues to teach the moral unlawfulness of contraception. When looked at carefully, this objection is clearly unfounded. It may be that many people use contraception with a view to excluding the subsequint temptation of abortion. But the negative values inherent in the 'contraceptive mentality' -which is very different from responsible parenthood, lived in respect for the full truth of the conjugal act -are such that they in fact strengthen this temptation when an unwanted life is conceived" (Evangelium Vitae, 13).
On the Language of the Body Expressing Wedding Vows: "In the reflections on the sacramental sign, it has already been said several times that it is based on the language of the body reread in truth. It concerns a truth once affirmed at the beginning of the marriage, when the newlyweds, promising each other 'to be always faithful ... and to love and honor each other all the says of their life,' become ministers of marriage as a sacrament of the Church. ... In fact, the man and the woman, living in the marriage 'until death,' repropose uninterruptedly, in a certain sense, that sign that they made on their wedding day, through the liturgy of the sacrament" (July 11, 1984).
Anthropology: The overall study of man and what is means to be a human person.
Contraception: Every action before, during, or after sexual intercourse that deliberately attempts to impede its procreative potential. These acts are intrinsically evil and are always morally unacceptable (CCC 2370).
"Faithful" love: Love that is committed. That commitment guides all other actions. You keep your promises once you have made them, no matter how your feelings may change.
"Free" love: Love that is not controlled or manipulated by another person or by a disordered desire. No one is forcing you to love. You have freely because you want to.
"Fruitful" love: Love that is life-giving, because it is free, total, and faithful. It is open to procreation in the physical realm and is life-giving in the spiritual and emotional realm as well.
On Contraception and Abortion: "It is frequently asserted that contraception, if made safe and available to all, is the most effective remedy against abortion. The Catholic Church is them accused of actually promoting abortion, because she obstinately continues to teach the moral unlawfulness of contraception. When looked at carefully, this objection is clearly unfounded. It may be that many people use contraception with a view to excluding the subsequint temptation of abortion. But the negative values inherent in the 'contraceptive mentality' -which is very different from responsible parenthood, lived in respect for the full truth of the conjugal act -are such that they in fact strengthen this temptation when an unwanted life is conceived" (Evangelium Vitae, 13).
On the Language of the Body Expressing Wedding Vows: "In the reflections on the sacramental sign, it has already been said several times that it is based on the language of the body reread in truth. It concerns a truth once affirmed at the beginning of the marriage, when the newlyweds, promising each other 'to be always faithful ... and to love and honor each other all the says of their life,' become ministers of marriage as a sacrament of the Church. ... In fact, the man and the woman, living in the marriage 'until death,' repropose uninterruptedly, in a certain sense, that sign that they made on their wedding day, through the liturgy of the sacrament" (July 11, 1984).
Anthropology: The overall study of man and what is means to be a human person.
Contraception: Every action before, during, or after sexual intercourse that deliberately attempts to impede its procreative potential. These acts are intrinsically evil and are always morally unacceptable (CCC 2370).
"Faithful" love: Love that is committed. That commitment guides all other actions. You keep your promises once you have made them, no matter how your feelings may change.
"Free" love: Love that is not controlled or manipulated by another person or by a disordered desire. No one is forcing you to love. You have freely because you want to.
"Fruitful" love: Love that is life-giving, because it is free, total, and faithful. It is open to procreation in the physical realm and is life-giving in the spiritual and emotional realm as well.
Homosexual acts: Actions of genital stimulation with a person of the same sex. According to the Catechism, "homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered' and 'contrary to the natural law ... Under no circumstances can they be approved" (CCC 2357).
Homosexuality: The attraction that a man or woman has to a member of the same sex. The homosexual inclination is disordered but not sinful in and of itself, since it is not freely chosen.
Annie, let me save you some time.
If the phrase doesn't appear in the document then you're done.
I don't care how many other phrases you can dig up in other documents that kind of sort of look a little like that phrase when you squint your eyes just right.
Let me put it gently...
Katrina Zeno lied to you.
It isn't in Humanae Vitae.
According to Humanae Vitae, true conjugal love has four characteristic marks and demands: it is “an act of the free will,” is “total,” “faithful” and “fruitful” (HV, No. 9). Additionally, it has both a “unitive” and a “procreative” meaning (Ibid, No. 10) that cannot be separated any more than the unitive act of Jesus upon the marriage bed of the Cross can be separated from the fruitfulness of his total offering. Conjugal love is an image of the love between Christ the Bridegroom and the Church his Bride and “this bride… is present in each of the baptized and is like one who presents herself before her Bridegroom” (Letter to Families, No. 19).
HUh...oh ya...oh ya....
http://www.humanaevitaepriests.org/hv_2008-08-14.html
P.S. Sorry for being a smart alleck, I could not resist.
Annie, FINALLY!
You see? All you needed to do was provide the cite. All the rest of the stuff you gave was not relevant or important.
So, now that you've provided the cite, I am willing to accept that perhaps Katrina Zeno didn't lie to you and you do, for once, actually know what you are talking about.
Thank God!
Thank God!
Thank God!
Except...
You left out something really, really, really important from HV 9.
The first sentence.
"In the light of these facts the characteristic features and exigencies of married love are clearly indicated, and it is of the highest importance to evaluate them exactly."
HV is talking about married love. Not married sex.
It's talking about married love, not just any (non)heterosexual relationship.
West, on the other hand, doesn't qualify his statement, nor does Lawler and Salzman. All three of them (and perhaps Katrina as well? I don't know) apply those four tests to EVERY sexual attitude, thought or action and NOT to "married love" even though HV speaks of these tests only in the context of "married love" (notice - nothing about sex there).
So, even in your moment of victory, you merely confirmed what I said to begin with: West, Lawler and Salzman - even though they appear to be using HV language - are not, because they don't restrict those tests to married love.
The last two allow it for homosexual love while West arguably seems to say, even when you read the preceding pages, that these tests can be applied to ANY heterosexual relationship.
Oh, and I guess I don't need to point out that you are STILL confusing West's phrasing with Magisterial documents, right?
The confusion of "love" for "sex"?
Of "marriage" for any relationship?
Of "married love" for "any sexual attitude, thought or action"?
Sigh....
TOB 46:6
John Paul II talks about love finding it's expression through the marital embrace. That man is made for woman, woman is made for man and find it's expression through the masculine and feminine. Okay Steve, married love finds it's expression through many ways, however, love is uniquely expressed in marriage through the marital embrace.
Fruitful??? That is the whole argument of contraception...we are speaking on intercourse, sex, the marital embrace, coitus, the marital union. When he spoke on contraception, if he was not referring to the sexual relations then was he speaking metaphorically? Cause then maybe contraception was just a metaphor too...hmmmm
It is not that I confuse West with Magisterial documents, it is that West teaches Magisterial documents. Let me make my point with a quote from a conversation I had with Lily (Dr. Alice von Hildebrand).
During a walk with her I asked her if I could share some of her work with others since I found is so profoundly beautiful and eloquent.
I will never forget what she said.
"Honey, I would be worried if you were saying something that I was not saying, what I say is not mine it has been taught for over 2,000 years."
West is teaching the "premises" not line by line verbatem. Just as we are all trying to share the premises of these beautiful church teachings to Catholics that don't even realize that most masses they attend are illicit because of the grave abuses occurring under their noses.
People do not know their faith. Help us develop a language to teach this! You have such a huge and vast knowledge base, and your funny as hell, but your so distracted all your energy is in bringing down West and Westians. Jesus spent more time evangelizing than proving Judas was a lier or that the pharisees were corrupt, not that I am equating West with them.
As for your rock concert thing, there are many ways to Evangelize. I doubt they have Rock Concerts at TOB Institute, define rock? Someone sings with a guitar?
John Paul II used plays to teach a point. Why can't people use music?
There are many means to communicate truth.
We are physical creatures. We receive grace through the outward sign of sacraments. The senses of the body participate in this, so why can't we use music to communicate truth?
I am not saying all music communicates good things. But surely QUEEN or KISS or the like were not there for a rock concert. Even at the latin mass you can go to a high mass or low mass. Music can communicate more or less of a truth. Sometimes it communicates a lie. Are you saying people can't use music to evangelize?
Upon further prayer and reflection, I do think that perhaps I do tend to go right to the sexual expression of married love, perhaps because I am married. I have pondered your comments on that Mary and Joseph did not consummate their marriage physically. Although I will say that their love was fruitful because it found the ultimate fulfillment which was Jesus.
Hmm...I am going to go to bed now, but will be praying about this. I will pull out Humanae Vitae and reread this.
How am I equating married love with sexual attitude thought or action?
Annie,
Marriage has three ends: procreation, unity, remedy for concupiscence.
Sex can be a means to solving each of these three ends, although it is not a necessary means for any of them, even procreation.
This does NOT mean IVF is ok, what I mean is Mary and Joseph accomplished all three ends in their marriage without sex. The marriage between Christ and His Church accomplishes all three ends without sex.
HV and JP II talk about "conjugal life" and "conjugal relations" and all anyone sees is "sex", even though that isn't what was written nor was that limited understanding what the Church intended to convey.
West, Lawler, et.al., don't teach what the Church does, they teach something that is parallel to, sounds like, bears certain resemblances to, what the Church teaches.
West's language is so scruffy, his emotional appeals so smarmy, that what he transmits is his own weird interpretation of sex, not the truth.
As McLuhan pointed out years ago, the medium by which a message is transmitted is part of the message. Rock has its own message that exists apart from the message of Christ.
The two are not compatible.
That's why rock is not permitted in the liturgy and why Cardinal Ratzinger wrote against it in several books.
"Humanae Vitae: Pope John Paul VI's 1868 encyclical on human life."
LAWL.
That's all you can say folks. Poor Pope Montini. Who would've thought Westians would throw him under the bus?
Why am I the only one to catch that?
And "Annie" you can cite a lot of text, but precious little interpretation of what that text means.
Would love the names of the books written by Ratzinger in regard to Rock...I was not aware and would like to read them.
Thanks for the tone as well, very gentle and it's easier for me to be receptive when you take me seriously, unlike Kevin who likes to antagonize me.
Some of us, truly desire the truth, not peoples ideas of truth, if I wanted my own truth I would have stayed in the world, it's much easier than being Catholic so maybe you could let Kevin know to keep his snide comments to himself unless he can actually contribute to the conversation. It's fine if he likes the banter back and forth with you but I'm not so thick skinned and my purpose is not to argue, but to learn.
I also have a question, procreative is obvious, but could you help me understand the unitive aspect? How is this accomplished other than physically.
In Love and Responsibility, the Holy Father talks about mutual orgasm. Is orgasm then linked to the unitive somehow? Why or Why not?
It was just one post that was "antagonizing", and I think it has a grain of truth. If you are going to come out lecturing about how we misunderstand things, it would probably behoove you not to cite a pope that has never existed.
It's Paul VI, and he wrote in the 1960's, not 1860's.
As far as Ratzinger on rock music, he devotes an entire chapter to liturgical music in Spirit of the Liturgy, and how most modern church music really has no business being in today's Churches, as well as why the Church gives prominence to the organ, the difference between liturgical and sacred music, etc.
The unitive can include sex, but obviously doesn't need to or Joseph and Mary would have missed out.
So, think about things that are unitive in your marriage apart from sex. Raising the kids, doing the dishes, washing the clothes, taking walks, praying together, assisting at Mass together - lots of opportunity for physical unitive activities.
People who take religious vows and live in religious community do take all meals together and pray virtually all prayers together. Indeed, for them it is often a sin NOT to attend liturgy of the hours or Mass in community without dispensation before-hand.
The religious community is modelled on the family.
Mutual orgasm is one more thing that can be done together, yes. But it isn't BETTER than the other things. Indeed, in the Summa, Aquinas points out that celibacy and mortification are better ways of winning grace than sex within marriage.
I cut and pasted the piece, next time I will check the spelling.
I have not lectured, but I certainly feel lectured to. My comments are directed to Steve. Perhaps I should have a private email to eliminate the confusion. My constitution may not be suited for asking questions in a public forum.
As for the 1960's things...duh..I am not new to all this, lets not waste our time on these trivialities...unless people think I really am that clueless, in which case I will just ask other people who actually are interested in dialogue instead of their own comments.
"It was just one comment that was antangonizing" really? That is your defense to be rude? A grain of truth can be found in the devils works too, a grain of truth does not make it true.
As for Rock Music, I believe it is talked about not being appropriate for mass, not that it is inappropriate as a form of music. Correct Steve? Or are you saying that the Holy Father has issued work condemning Rock music?
Thank you Steve for your words. I never considered the monastic life in context of the family before.
Why would Pope John Paul (Then Karol Wojtyla) even write about mutual orgasm? What does he think can be gained by it? How does it relate to TOB or doesn't it at all?
Also, this is something someone brought up to me that really made me think and I have had no one to talk to about it.
A man's sexual organ is both procreative and can not experience orgasm separate from this. (At least that is my understanding). A woman however, can separate the two and in fact the part of her body that makes the marital embrace pleasurable is on the outside of the body and her procreative is on the inside. If the body speaks a language, what is that saying to us? I really want to know from the aspect of the function of the body and how it's design communicates truth to us about God, ourselves and our relationship to him.
FYI; I realize there is also pleasure from the inside but I am speaking specifically about two separate parts for sake of my question.
Interesting question in re Cardinal Wojtyla. A lot of people raised that objection to him directly.
He wrote Love and Responsibility in 1960. Pornography was just coming into its own in the Western world, being pushed hard by the Soviets as a way to destabilize the West. Hefner had been publishing Playboy for several years.
In 1960, Wojtyla thought it was necessary to have this discussion.
By the time he gets to be Pope, he isn't doing that anymore. Apparently, he has decided that conversation is not as helpful as it could be.
As for the typological meaning of the way the woman's body is built in this regard as opposed to the man's body, I haven't a clue. The Fathers didn't talk about it much (except Augustine and only in general terms for the man), and doing typology without the guidance of the Fathers is a dangerous business.
Oh, forgot to address rock music.
No, neither Cardinal Ratzinger nor Benedict XVI has issued a work condemning rock music per se, to my knowledge. However, Ratzinger's discussion of why it is inappropriate for liturgy implies that these reasons can be extended to other venues.
The purpose of catechesis is precisely this - to bring the one being taught into a relationship with Christ. We most perfectly encounter Christ in the sacraments. So, put another way, the point of catechesis is to bring people into participation in the liturgy and the sacraments, the most perfect acts of the Church.
Given that this is the purpose, it is highly unlikely that rock music has any place in catechesis. Catechesis is preparation for the liturgy, and rock music has no place in the liturgy, so it's hard to see what relevance it would have to preparing someone for it.
A rock concert is an eminently profane activity. That doesn't necessarily make it bad, it just means that the encounters there have to be carefully considered.
Encountering Christ is an encounter with His whole Person and it requires our whole person to respond - intellect, emotion, spirit, everything.
Rock music, by its nature, promotes an intense emotional experience generally to the detriment of intellectual participation. Indeed, how many rock songs do you know that you can't even be sure of the words (meaning)? You have an emotional experience of the song, not an intellectual experience.
Now, there's nothing wrong with that per se, but it is similar to saying that the best way to encounter Christ is to get a bit tipsy first. Getting tipsy is not a sin (as opposed to drunkeness - which IS a sin) but I know no one who would say that drinking to the point of hilarity is a great way to grow in the understanding of Jesus.
Yes, I know about Theology on Tap, and I've spoken at many, but the people there DON'T get drunk or even close to it. With rock music, that is not going to be as true.
West is pushing the rock music because he is intellectually bankrupt and that is becoming increasingly obvious.
Five years ago, I was just about the only public figure speaking out against him. Now there are dozens. He has very few creditable supporters, and those he has are losing ground every day as their arguments ring more and more hollow.
All West has left is emotion, so he's pushing that as hard as he can now, in order to dodge the need to defend his bankrupt intellectual arguments.
To add to Steve,
When one says "profane" it is in the context of distinguishing between the "sacred" and the "profane." One could also say the "sacred" and the "secular."
Then Cardinal Ratzinger takes it even a step further by pointing "sacred" music (anything that has God as its object) and "liturgical" music. For example, many of Mozart's concert orchestra pieces, even of Masses, had a religious aspect to them, but they would not be appropriate to actually use in a regular worship setting.
That puts rock and roll pretty low on the totem pole.
As far as West, yeah, he's basically discredited himself. His latest interview where he dismisses his critics as being of the "religious right", he can only hope that few people actually READ his words.
Fr. Loya has come out and said that their presentation needs no evidence. Matthew Pinto released something that did a lot more harm than good. Janet Smith called God a stalker.
Even if Miss Eden were off base in her thesis (she isn't), her work has done a valuable service to Catholics. If this is Dr. Von Hildebrand's final service to the Church, if she never speaks in public again (let us pray this is not the case!), she will go on to her eternal reward to be with her husband in heaven with a fresh crown on her head for the endeavor of engaging in fraternal correction on this manner.
Even if you might disagree with his methods and his tone, Mr. Kellmeyer does deserve some credit on this one for making the proper "call."
Post a Comment