tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post8700044950326700873..comments2024-03-20T16:30:09.690-05:00Comments on The Fifth Column: On Salvation for AllUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-7120994868219842162016-03-03T20:51:14.049-06:002016-03-03T20:51:14.049-06:00I truly believe that Protostants go to heaven, and...I truly believe that Protostants go to heaven, and our not doomed to hell. I can not even imagine Billy Graham going to hell.ButterflyofGracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322483325911233098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-85461539040872027312016-03-03T20:50:54.217-06:002016-03-03T20:50:54.217-06:00I truly believe that Protostants go to heaven, and...I truly believe that Protostants go to heaven, and our not doomed to hell. I can not even imagine Billy Graham going to hell.ButterflyofGracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322483325911233098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-9264848278963371552014-04-12T12:48:36.885-05:002014-04-12T12:48:36.885-05:00Well, no one is saying the Fatima prayer means all...Well, no one is saying the Fatima prayer means all human souls shall (in the imperative) escape hell. That's a straw man argument.<br /><br />It means we can legitimately have the theological hope, based in God's saving grace, that all may escape hell. <br /><br />As for St. Paul's statement, "all have sinned", it is certainly the case that all - including Mary and Jesus - suffered the consequence of sin. Now, since it is de fide that Mary and Jesus did not sin, we obviously are not permitted to interpret the verse to say that Mary and Jesus are sinners. <br /><br />But it is also de fide that Christ came to save ALL men (by which we mean all human persons, not just the males). Thus, while it is the Church does not forbid Catholics from saying that some human persons are in hell, neither does She forbid us from hoping that NO human person is in hell. <br /><br />Further, given our trust in Christ's saving grace, we even have the right to the theological hope that no human person EVER ends in hell. Indeed, given that this right is based in God's own saving grace, a very strong argument can be made that we have a DUTY to entertain this divinely-based hope. The Fatima prayer is a fine example of the requirement to carry out this duty. Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-743604607304299822014-04-12T12:03:22.681-05:002014-04-12T12:03:22.681-05:00If the Fatima prayer means literally all human sou...If the Fatima prayer means literally all human souls shall escape hell, then by the same token St. Paul's "all have sinned" means Our Lord and Our Lady are sinners.<br /><br />Since it doesn't mean all human souls shall escape hell, that means the ancient understanding that some or most souls will be damned does not contradict the Fatima prayer.Confiteborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17951083063448447552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-46955055650162886742014-04-11T18:07:29.852-05:002014-04-11T18:07:29.852-05:00Mary gave you that basketball prayer did she?
Fas...Mary gave you that basketball prayer did she?<br /><br />Fascinating.<br /><br />You don't have a logical right to hope for the victory of ALL basketball teams because the nature of sports precludes that.<br /><br />But you DO have the logical right to hope for the salvation of ALL men, because the nature of God's grace permits that.<br /><br />Now, if you're saying the three visionaries put words in Mary's mouth and actively lied about what she expressly told them to pray, well, I guess that's your right as a Catholic.<br /><br />And I can see how you would need to argue that way, given that if the three visionaries are right, your entire pro multis argument falls flat on its face and breaks its poor little "knows".Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-68672058309382651502014-04-11T17:52:59.047-05:002014-04-11T17:52:59.047-05:00If I pray "lead all baseball teams to victory...If I pray "lead all baseball teams to victory tonight", I have a right to the hope of victory for all. I can even enjoy the possibility, in some kind of grand charitable fantasy. If I bank on it, I would be guilty of presumption, and prove I know little about baseball. <br /><br />God judges salvation. If all attain heaven what would be the point? I brought up Medjugorje because it has become quite popular to put words and ideas into BVM mouth. <br /><br />I love how your blog trolls.<br />Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03228323311972752793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-56487964048526606852014-04-11T09:38:44.004-05:002014-04-11T09:38:44.004-05:00"The intention to 'Lead all sheep to safe..."The intention to 'Lead all sheep to safety' in no way implies they all will make it. "<br /><br />Actually, it DOES imply exactly that possibility, otherwise the possibility would not be expressed in the thought. If Mary wanted to spread the idea that only some had the hope of salvation, she would say instead "Lead many sheep to safety." You know - pro multis and all that. Perhaps you're not familiar with pro multis???<br /><br />In any case, it's funny you brought up Medjugorje, since I didn't. It's almost like you're trying to change the subject. How odd. Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-46977677169955065732014-04-11T09:08:30.162-05:002014-04-11T09:08:30.162-05:00More muddled modernist thought.
If the Blessed M...More muddled modernist thought. <br /><br />If the Blessed Mother wanted to say <br />"Deliver All Souls to Heaven" she would have said it. <br /><br />If that were the case it is likely that Fatima would never have been recognized as worthy of belief. <br /><br />The intention to 'Lead all sheep to safety' in no way implies they all will make it. Certainly it is a pray rooted in charity and love for souls. Decisions on eternal salvation however are God's alone. The BVM would not tread on God's domain. <br /><br />Perhaps your thinking has been polluted by the clown show of Medjugorje and the 40,000+ visits<br />they have received - Guffaw. Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03228323311972752793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-24164771234275906902014-04-11T08:58:01.647-05:002014-04-11T08:58:01.647-05:00Wow...the asplosion of Trad heads was more impress...Wow...the asplosion of Trad heads was more impressive than I expected.<br /><br />Good work, Steve. :DFlambeauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133131881423202010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-21185423341493051602014-04-10T21:01:31.838-05:002014-04-10T21:01:31.838-05:00Hey Vivo Christo Rey, if you have an issue, take i...Hey Vivo Christo Rey, if you have an issue, take it up with the Blessed Virgin Mary.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-77383169092856534342014-04-10T19:47:01.282-05:002014-04-10T19:47:01.282-05:00Thanks for this post.......I was thinking about st...Thanks for this post.......I was thinking about stealing money from the peasant workers I have in my factory along the boarder. I was also going to pillage the environment, mock and ridicule illegal aliens, and discriminate against minorities. Now I know I can and still go to Heaven.<br /><br />I am so glad I am free to follow my conscience when it tells me to rob, rape, steal, and murder.....we all go to heaven anyway!!!!Viva Cristo Reyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833273151936983216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-8702876502128869762014-04-10T15:47:17.003-05:002014-04-10T15:47:17.003-05:00Steve's heresy today ... is that souls can gai...Steve's heresy today ... is that souls can gain merit after death (after the soul leaves the body).<br /><br />This has been repeatedly condemned by the Catholic Church ... so we see that Steve (again) is not speaking on behalf of the Catholic Church.<br /><br />A couple examples that prove that Steve is lying ...<br /><br />Council of Florence, Session 6, 1439 A.D. -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma ><br />"But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in Original Sin alone, go down straightaway to Hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."<br /><br />Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, 1442 A.D. -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma ><br />"It (the Catholic Church) firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church ... will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church *before the end of their lives*."<br /><br />More on Section 37 of > Immaculata-one.com.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16461431542126250213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-55655283719698323272014-04-10T15:46:15.560-05:002014-04-10T15:46:15.560-05:00Steve's heresy today ... is that souls can gai...Steve's heresy today ... is that souls can gain merit after death (after the soul leaves the body).<br /><br />This has been repeatedly condemned by the Catholic Church ... so we see that Steve (again) is not speaking on behalf of the Catholic Church.<br /><br />A couple examples that prove that Steve is lying ...<br /><br />Council of Florence, Session 6, 1439 A.D. -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma ><br />"But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in Original Sin alone, go down straightaway to Hell to be punished, but with unequal pains." <br /><br />Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, 1442 A.D. -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma ><br />"It (the Catholic Church) firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church ... will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church *before the end of their lives*." <br /><br />More on Section 37 of > Immaculata-one.com.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16461431542126250213noreply@blogger.com