tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post4726337559989771908..comments2024-03-20T16:30:09.690-05:00Comments on The Fifth Column: Sects, Lies, and the Wild, Wild WestUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-10948705905919705922020-01-31T14:44:29.423-06:002020-01-31T14:44:29.423-06:00January 2020. Father William McNamara married Shar...January 2020. Father William McNamara married Sharon Doyle's sister and myself in Antigonish, Nova Scotia, in 1992. Sharon was the 'abbess' of Nova Nada community in southern Nova Scotia, until it closed in 1998. Sharon's sister suddenly took our three children and filed for divorce in 2002. I drove to Colorado seeking counsel from Father William. He was no where to be found. This story is helpful in providing some missing pieces of the puzzle. Thanks! Does anyone have any links to Father McNamara's complete story? Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17046327852702567502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-71312925632975745072019-11-02T21:48:39.255-05:002019-11-02T21:48:39.255-05:00It is now 2019, and I am researching Tessa Bieleck...It is now 2019, and I am researching Tessa Bielecki, who no longer goes by Mother and barely seems Catholic now. <br />Her biographical entry at https://sandandsky.org/tessa-bielecki/ still includes her claim to have been a genuine Mother: "she helped create a monastic community and four retreat centers over four decades: Nada Hermitage in Sedona, Arizona in the 1960s (lost to land developers in 1981), Nova Nada Hermitage in Kemptville, Nova Scotia, Canada in the 1970s (lost to logging development in 1998), Nada Carmelite Hermitage in Crestone, Colorado in the 1980s, and Holy Hill Hermitage in Skreen, County Sligo, Ireland in the 1990s.<br /><br />"After serving as Mother Abbess of these centers and traveling between them for almost 40 years, Tessa left monastic life in 2003. In 2005, with friend and colleague, Fr. David Denny, she created The Desert Foundation, an informal circle of friends exploring the spirit of the desert, its landscape and soulscape, with a special focus on peace and reconciliation among the Abrahamic traditions: Jews, Christians, and Muslims." <br /><br />Thank you for exposing the falsity of Tessa's claim to have been a Carmelite--I remember seeing her using OCD after her name on one site! The New Age atmosphere and connections/funding in Crestone have also been revealed. wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16962999368403702538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-35577538911192535642017-04-06T21:33:48.640-05:002017-04-06T21:33:48.640-05:00I came across this post as I was looking up Ms Bie...<br /><br />I came across this post as I was looking up Ms Bielecki.<br /><br />Folks! Listen to yourselves! Do you follow the Christ? Do you need to vent about how awful and wrong other people are? Even if it is true? Leave it Him to judge them, as He will judge us all! Please let this bother you some! Please, please find something better to do-- especially if you are would do it in Christ's name! I beseech you with love, in the name of Jesus Christ.Amy Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330476233086622465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-23485134815341096692011-12-22T06:54:56.597-06:002011-12-22T06:54:56.597-06:00Dawn - I used to have to watch Bishop Sheen as a t...Dawn - I used to have to watch Bishop Sheen as a teenager. It was a religious program that took place during the day time when my, faithful, parents could hear something of Catholic faith. I REALLY disliket Biship Sheen. First his dramatic entrance with flowing robes put me off right away. Next when he was "sent" to the city of Rochester, he took it upon himself to give away Church property to a minority group of non Catholics. I am not a devotee of Bishop Fulton J Sheen.<br />Patricia Calapatcalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04588383360689515221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-84271255211897365482011-09-18T17:50:59.614-05:002011-09-18T17:50:59.614-05:00BostonPaul,
Part of the Daughters of St. Paul, pe...BostonPaul,<br /><br />Part of the Daughters of St. Paul, perhaps? <br /><br />They spent over a year deliberately trying to destroy my TOB book... hmmm...<br /><br />In any case, if you don't like reading, then.... don't...<br /><br />West endorsed a heretic and has never pulled his endorsement.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-31785221781870115072011-09-18T16:03:09.042-05:002011-09-18T16:03:09.042-05:00This guy steve gives me the creeps. To take a shor...This guy steve gives me the creeps. To take a shor phrase out of context and use it to discredit a man who gave his whole life to honoring God is horible.<br />This kind of self-righteous literalism is everything that Jesus was against. He would have chastised hiom roundly. <br />What about all his exhortations not to judge let ye be judged. And take the plank out of your own eye. It is amazing how often people distort and miss the basic message. This is probably what Mcnamara meant.BostonPaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517145225884965533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-60353980034184283862011-09-18T16:01:30.537-05:002011-09-18T16:01:30.537-05:00This kind of self-righteous literalism is everythi...This kind of self-righteous literalism is everything that Jesus was against. He would have chastised hiom roundly. <br />What about all his exhortations not to judge let ye be judged. And take the plank out of your own eye. It is amazing how often people distort and miss the basic message. This is probably what Mcnamara meant.BostonPaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517145225884965533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-87999693863067292742010-04-01T13:04:19.465-05:002010-04-01T13:04:19.465-05:00M,
When you can explain to me how calling Catholi...M,<br /><br />When you can explain to me how calling Catholicism "Christo-fascism" is really orthodox, I will accept what you have to say.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-4951348100465447682010-03-03T09:36:40.528-06:002010-03-03T09:36:40.528-06:00I have known Tessa Bielecki for many years. Ms. Bi...I have known Tessa Bielecki for many years. Ms. Bielecki, and many others associated with the SLI were very Orthodox in their beliefs and devotion to the Holy See. The laicization of Fr. McNamara was a painful experience for many members of the community. Most of the priests in the community left. Christo-fascism is a reference towards Christian people forcing their beliefs and practices on others. It is not, in any way, a reference diminishing belief in Jesus Christ. Ms. Bielecki and the other monks, as they always referred to themselves as being, were adamantly pro-life in their views. Their charism was ecumenical outreach and dialogue with other spiritual traditions as fostered by the spirit of Vatican II. This article is biased and distorts many of the facts.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06536438847638333190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-53096801364424600512009-10-16T13:33:03.477-05:002009-10-16T13:33:03.477-05:00Thanks Steve.
One great thing about Archbishop Sh...Thanks Steve.<br /><br />One great thing about Archbishop Sheen (vs. TOB) is his words require no distillation or interpretation. In most cases simply quoting them provides far more clarity than even trying.Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15123119830359717991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-91723326770423060552009-10-15T14:22:04.241-05:002009-10-15T14:22:04.241-05:00Sure, Brendan.
I will confess some interest in th...Sure, Brendan.<br /><br />I will confess some interest in the idea when I first encountered TOB. Indeed, I discussed it with several other colleagues at about the time I recorded that particular MP3, shortly after getting my MA from Franciscan U. <br /><br />In the intervening years, as I've read more of the Fathers and seen more concerns raised from the liturgical side of the issue, I'm convinced it's not a good or useful connection to make. <br /><br />I understand why West makes that particular mistake. Heck, I understand why he makes a LOT of the mistakes he does. <br /><br />Take, for instance, the Westian error on concupiscence. If you read the TOB audiences without reference to the larger Magisterium, it would be easy to come away with a wrong understanding of concupiscence, because JP II says things that appear very contradictory about whether or not concupiscence can be overcome. <br /><br />In one passage, he'll appear to be saying it can be, in another, he'll flat out say it cannot be. Reconciling those passages can be tough. Chris West ultimately lands in erroneous terrain on this point because he's not well-versed in moral theology.<br /><br />As for liturgical connections, JP II says virtually NOTHING about the liturgy. He spends a July 4 audience discussing "fear of the Lord" and ends with a sentence stating "conjugal life" can become liturgical. "Conjugal life" not "sex." Are they the same? Not necessarily.<br /><br />JP II also spends a couple of audiences on the connection between sacraments and conjugal life, but he certainly doesn't mention baptism or the Paschal candle at all. <br /><br />Almost everything anyone, including me, says on the intersection between liturgy and TOB is us trying to make sense of the audiences, with varying degrees of success. It ain't explicitly JP II. <br /><br />To make TOB relevant, it has to be tied into the life of the Church, but the life of the Church is sacrament and liturgy, not sex. JP II left darned few explicit hooks to do that. There are a few connections, but not nearly so many as West likes to pretend. <br /><br />Furthermore, it has to be tied into the life of the family, because the family is the cell of the Church and society as a whole. But JP II's TOB famously ignores the whole subject of "family." The word barely appears at all in the audiences, there is essentially no discussion of children. He even points out that his TOB audiences are incomplete. He doesn't use TOB audiences even as footnotes in any of his other teachings (there's only one footnote reference I'm aware of in his writings).<br /><br />So you have this huge convoluted mess of a teaching levitating by itself in the middle of a big empty room, but Weigel said it was a bombshell, so everyone thinks it must be. To a real extent, I think most TOB commentators, including West and myself, got suckered into promoting a shibboleth. <br /><br />West has built his life around it, and he can't let it go. So, he's straining to make connections that can't be made. I've pretty much given the whole thing up as a bad job. <br /><br />We could go back to Archbishop Sheen and Fr. Lord without missing a beat.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-9458149068121026302009-10-15T12:21:28.448-05:002009-10-15T12:21:28.448-05:00Steve, do you care to comment on the Paschal Candl...Steve, do you care to comment on the Paschal Candle thing? You alluded to it in sscity.mp3.Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15123119830359717991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-7060292957631758172009-10-15T03:31:47.867-05:002009-10-15T03:31:47.867-05:00+JMJ+
It sounds as if I do more background checks...+JMJ+<br /><br />It sounds as if I do more background checks on the 'bloggers I link than West does on the "authorities" he promotes. Yet I don't have thousands of faithful Catholics hanging on my every word.Enbrethilielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414765854670926854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-38621229889340439132009-10-14T13:15:18.012-05:002009-10-14T13:15:18.012-05:00Enbrethiliel,
Father Andrew Greeley, as a matter ...Enbrethiliel,<br /><br />Father Andrew Greeley, as a matter of fact, is an advocate for the Phallic Paschal Candle Myth that is so dear to West.<br /><br />Interesting that I see here the argument in support of West that he was unaware the nature of his source. I am still waiting to hear from anyone which father of the Church teaches that the Paschal Candle is is phallic symbol.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-11458276675983878362009-10-14T07:51:38.783-05:002009-10-14T07:51:38.783-05:00There certainly are no vetting procedures for most...There certainly are no vetting procedures for most Catholic authors. However, someone at the Vatican level needs to take a serious look into how Imprimaturs are handed out. I've read way too many books or booklets with one that can easily mislead the unwary.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08381087750301180720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-6308047389507216262009-10-13T09:51:47.322-05:002009-10-13T09:51:47.322-05:00+JMJ+
Am I the only one getting a "Father An...+JMJ+<br /><br />Am I the only one getting a "Father Andrew Greeley" vibe? (Really.)Enbrethilielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414765854670926854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-77500173103771326362009-10-13T09:13:08.763-05:002009-10-13T09:13:08.763-05:00The more I hear about West, the weirder it gets.The more I hear about West, the weirder it gets.Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01469622835449220113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-65879960042511517462009-10-13T06:31:47.217-05:002009-10-13T06:31:47.217-05:00Steve,
Great job once again! You are tenacious!
...Steve,<br /><br />Great job once again! You are tenacious! <br /><br />I think that CW has a responsibility as a teacher to thoroughly check out anyone he is recommending to his audience... if he has done his homework on "mother Tessa" and still recommends her- shame on him!<br /><br />If he has not done his research- shame on him!<br /><br />Either way it comes out the same- shame on him!<br /><br />DougDoug Pearsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321954889600414571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-77610770654547406742009-10-12T21:47:06.579-05:002009-10-12T21:47:06.579-05:00Regarding great expositions on the Church's te...Regarding great expositions on the Church's teaching on marriage, I would highly recommend <i>Three to Get Married</i> by Fulton J. Sheen, which is still in print. People who read it who know the TOB are shocked at how much it reads like TOB. Pope John Paul II was a great fan of Archbishop Sheen.Dawn Eden Goldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12940490469208963411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-55642146352248957562009-10-12T15:40:02.286-05:002009-10-12T15:40:02.286-05:00A lot of people have written beautifully on Cathol...A lot of people have written beautifully on Catholic marriage and sexuality. <br /><br />If you are concerned about "modern" language or finding something that speaks to today's couples, you should explore Catholic authors from the last 50 to 100 years or so. <br /><br />Father Daniel Lord's materials, for instance, are excellent - he's writing in the 1930's through the 1950's, and addresses many of the same concerns that West did in his "Good News", except Fr. Lord does a fantastic job. <br /><br />If you really just want TOB, there are other people who promote it without presenting as many problems as West does. Check out the various alternatives. <br /><br />But, to tell you the truth, there isn't much new theological insight in TOB. It's just a synthesis of what the Church has always taught, with important pieces cut out for reasons best known to JP II.<br /><br />I've come to the conclusion that TOB is mostly a theological advertising gimmick promoted by Weigel and West. <br /><br />It repackages some basic theology, but it isn't even complete on the theology of marriage, and JP II takes pains to point all of this out in the last TOB audience. But none of the TOB promoters talk about that last audience. It hurts sales.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-82793168770805188372009-10-12T14:21:01.001-05:002009-10-12T14:21:01.001-05:00Thanks Steve for your response. Yes, I do remembe...Thanks Steve for your response. Yes, I do remember reading also about the anal foreplay incident, and it did raise a red flag and was disappointed that Mr. West took such a strong stance on that particular issue. It was good to hear that he has taken at least some initiative to modify his position. Just goes to show that one must not look at presenters like Mr. West as “infallible” whenever they speak, even though they have books printed with imprimatur and nihil obstat. <br /><br /> Although I always like to give such presenters the benefit of the doubt and trust that if anything erroneous did come about during a lecture or writing, that they are called out on it and have it corrected. I do hope Mr. West is not going down the wrong path; as a RCIA mentor I would like to recommend his TOB books for new coming young couples preparing to marry and in need of such a beautiful teaching from JPII. <br /><br />-Anonymous 10:51Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-8227185993195387352009-10-12T13:30:22.765-05:002009-10-12T13:30:22.765-05:00+JMJ+
Wow. Christopher West really is full of it....+JMJ+<br /><br />Wow. Christopher West really is full of it.Enbrethilielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414765854670926854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-11914226090035837102009-10-12T13:25:30.120-05:002009-10-12T13:25:30.120-05:00West's talks are the most problematic, followe...West's talks are the most problematic, followed by his articles. His books have had the fewest overt problems, but even those have not been free of difficulty.<br /><br />His first edition of "Good News About Sex and Marriage" essentially endorsed anal foreplay as permissible. After being chastised for that, he modified the passage and produced a second edition that wasn't quite as offensive, but was still erroneous. To date, West and his defenders are still trying to claim his position is acceptable, although none of them have produced Magisterial teaching for holding such a position. <br /><br />As the article link to his same book demonstrates, he severely distorts the story of St. Pelagia in order to promote his theory that we are all able to definitively overcome concupiscence. This theory is rank heresy, but he currently still attempts to support it by snipping out small sentence fragments from Pope John Paul II's writings, stringing them together to give the appearance that JP II taught this error. <br /><br />Further, as the linked article in my own article (above) points out, his book "Heaven's Song" simply distorts the writings of St. Louis de Montfort, again, in order to support his idiosyncratic theories about sex.<br /><br />If Mr. West was well-grounded in Catholic theology, he would not be attracted to Tessa Bielecki's spiritual musings.<br /><br />As it is, by his own admission, he is captivated by them.<br /><br />This isn't a situation where he is ministering to a lost soul (no one can be chided for that - that would be Christ talking with the tax collectors and prostitutes). <br /><br />No, Christopher West is actively pursuing the spiritual advice of a lost soul, and he is recommending we all imitate him and actively pursue the spirituality of that same lost soul.<br /><br />Thus, this is not guilt by association.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-43757793491429589222009-10-12T13:08:26.467-05:002009-10-12T13:08:26.467-05:00Is there any evidence Mr. West knew about the irre...Is there any evidence Mr. West knew about the irregularities in the history pf 'Mother Tessa'? Is there any evidence that Mr. West supports the present heterodox teaching of 'Mother Tessa'? Has anyone asked Mr. West specifically about this? Or is it guilt by association?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-91408255220218782752009-10-12T12:51:46.085-05:002009-10-12T12:51:46.085-05:00I’m confused. I recently read Mr. West’s TOB for ...I’m confused. I recently read Mr. West’s TOB for beginners and it was great, and to my knowledge was very orthodox in teaching. This is why it disturbs me to hear such things. It seems that so far most of the criticisms have come from either his lectures or articles he has written. Has anyone ever found anything wrong with his books?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com