tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post3722780021244811325..comments2024-03-20T16:30:09.690-05:00Comments on The Fifth Column: A Disturbing IndicatorUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-36215437773276620382010-10-04T20:40:24.030-05:002010-10-04T20:40:24.030-05:00Well, it's like Origenism.
We're not real...Well, it's like Origenism. <br />We're not really sure Origen even taught some of the things that are now called that. Same with Priscillianism, etc.<br /><br />Since West was the one that pioneered most of the major errors, and since he has been instrumental in making TOB supporters feel morally superior to everyone else ("only the very pure should read my work, only the very pure understand what I've written"), I'd say it's fair to call it all Westian.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-30969759226262147942010-10-04T19:15:43.688-05:002010-10-04T19:15:43.688-05:00As I blast through these last few posts and their ...As I blast through these last few posts and their comments to catch up, I notice a common theme, that you seem to blame <i>Westian</i> influence for nearly every error and misunderstanding demonstrated by any commenter on this subject.<br /><br />A lot of this stuff seems like things people can come up with on their own by excessively contemplating the words <i>"Theology of the Body"</i> in solitude.<br /><br />There is a lot of error going around these days. Are people spouting errors because of what West says to them, or are those already inclined to error easily influenced by him?<br /><br />I think the former is a tough case to make, and I wonder how constructive it is to try. Isn't there a logical fallacy along those lines?Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15123119830359717991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-27003955437987285652010-10-02T23:31:19.935-05:002010-10-02T23:31:19.935-05:00I almost never read Inside Catholic. It keeps re-r...I almost never read Inside Catholic. It keeps re-running old articles, and a lot of the old articles are stupid wrong. Anything by Sandra Miesel, for instance, is automatically suspect. She's a lousy historian, but Inside Catholic loves her...Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-37668808031997340152010-10-02T23:24:00.800-05:002010-10-02T23:24:00.800-05:00Steve,
What are your impressions of Evelyn Vitz&#...Steve,<br /><br />What are your impressions of Evelyn Vitz's latest article on insidecatholic.com "God and the Sexes"?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08253693517300140280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-30656050492712014062010-10-02T19:16:40.346-05:002010-10-02T19:16:40.346-05:00I think in the end I don't view them "lia...I think in the end I don't view them "liars." Lying involves intent.<br /><br />The only intent they have is defending their hero. So zealous in this intent, they overlook anything resembling basic norms of scholarship, charity, etc.<br /><br />I don't view them the liar. I view them the overzealous defender who does more damage with their "defenses" than a liar could ever do.<br /><br />Maybe less morally culpable, but even more irresponsible. <br /><br />I do agree however with your last point. This really is par for the course with this crowd. Dawn Eden's thesis could engage in the worst of conspiracy-mongering, and be worse than they could possibly imagine, and it would still go unanswered because they lack the discipline to interact with it.<br /><br />Of course, Dawn Eden's thesis is about 95% correct, so they have an even steeper hill to climb in their lack of prudence.Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-79196125511329309992010-10-02T19:00:34.393-05:002010-10-02T19:00:34.393-05:00The problem is Westians are such inveterate liars....The problem is Westians are such inveterate liars.<br /><br />They'll lie about things you would never think anyone would lie about.<br /><br />I've had people double-check expressions and sentiments that it never, in a thousand years, would have occurred to me to question, and in EVERY case, the Westian has mis-represented the facts.<br /><br />It really does continually amaze me.Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-46619185881566849432010-10-02T18:26:13.702-05:002010-10-02T18:26:13.702-05:00Thanks for the plug Steve. My ego says I might ha...Thanks for the plug Steve. My ego says I might have actually done some original research and fact checking on this one, since almost everyone seems to have bought Dr. Smith's testimony hook line and sinker, without bother to fact check.<br /><br />What's interesting is this fact-checking really only took a few hours. In a near 7,000 word essay, did she not have time to fact check?<br /><br />She also could have read the parts of the theology manual in English, where there is talk about if there was an intent at "venereal pleasure" and the situations under which impurity was committed, and what kind of sin it was. I'll spare people the details. Suffice to say, since I am not going to become a priest, I have no desire to look at this manual again. I almost want the time I spent fact-checking this stuff back. <br /><br />As Dr. Smith provides the link to it, interested readers can pursue it.<br /><br />Kevin Tierney<br />http://commonsensecatholicism.blogspot.comKevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-54254258429473055822010-10-02T11:10:59.407-05:002010-10-02T11:10:59.407-05:00My addition at CSC to the question:
http://common...My addition at CSC to the question:<br /><br />http://commonsensecatholicism.blogspot.com/2010/09/part-iii-of-response-to-dr-smith.html<br /><br />Personally, I need a shower after writing this. If I never again have to talk about the topic mentioned, I can die a happy man.Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-22794378676694167592010-10-02T09:52:34.499-05:002010-10-02T09:52:34.499-05:00Personally, I'm rather glad I don't have t...<i>Personally, I'm rather glad I don't have to read an in-depth treatment on these two issues. It's something I could VERY easily do without. Go ahead, call me a prude!</i><br /><br />Exactly -- but it is the sort of thing that confessors need to know. It does lead one to question why a writer would think it necessary to even discuss acts such as these in a work intended for a popular audience.dcshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18424510747759223459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-33221495428552569642010-10-02T05:51:53.584-05:002010-10-02T05:51:53.584-05:00For the most part outstanding work here Steve. I ...For the most part outstanding work here Steve. I think you do "the cause" a far greater service when you use the mocking tone sparingly. Even if they deserve no such concession, give it to em anyway, and let them burn by their own words.<br /><br />A few things, one half-serious, another serious.<br /><br />As far as Sacred Heart Major Seminary and the EF, I'm not sure how I'd feel if some of the priests and others had that form of mass there, as one who lives 25 minutes from that seminary and is familiar with its history. :) That being said, it wouldn't hurt, as we have two pretty well known traditionalist/favorable to traditionalist parishes in the area. You have Assumption Grotto (the former home of Fr. Hardon and which offers the EF daily, albeit a low mass most the time) and St. Josaphat (detroitlatinmass.org), which is my stomping grounds. one of the altar servers is even preparing to enter the semminary there. (actually two of them now that I think of it!) Would be great to give them formal training there, instead of having to seek it <i> after </i> their ordination.<br /><br />As far as the moral theology manuals, I'd only like to note a few things. In the preface to Slater's manual, Fr. Slater says:<br /><br /><i>Here, however, we must ask the reader to bear in mind that manuals of moral theology are <b>technical works intended to help the confessor and the parish priest </b> in the discharge of their duties. They are as technical as the textbooks of the lawyer and the doctor. <b>They are not intended for edification, nor do they hold up a high ideal of Christian perfection for the imitation of the faithful. </b> They deal with what is of obligation under pain of sin; they are books of moral pathology. They are necessary for the <b>Catholic priest to enable him to administer the sacrament of Penance </b> and to fulfil his other duties ; they are intended to serve this purpose, and <b>they should not be censured for not being what they were never intended to be. </b> Ascetical and mystical literature which treats of the higher spiritual life is very abundant in the Catholic Church, and it should be consulted by those who desire to know the lofty ideals of life which the Catholic Church places before her children and encourages them to practise. Moral theology proposes to itself the humbler but still necessary task of defining <b>what is right and what wrong </b> in all the practical relations of the Christian life. This all, but more especially priests, should know. </i><br /><br />In short, to say that this work was meant to obscure the truth from the faithful, is to completely misread the intent of the text. This wasn't something meant for the average Catholic. It treats, in a very technical manner, specifically what is right and wrong, not what prudence dictates. This work is meant almost entirely for the parish priest of that time period (who as you note was extremely well versed in latin).<br /><br />Interestingly enough, one need not know Latin to get an idea of what they are talking about in those passages. One of the headings in latin is "De Sodomia" and another is "De Bestialitate." Wonder what that means? My first reaction: they actually talk about this kind of stuff in theology manuals?<br /><br />Personally, I'm rather glad I don't have to read an in-depth treatment on these two issues. It's something I could VERY easily do without. Go ahead, call me a prude!Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.com