tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post8193902802606888317..comments2024-03-20T16:30:09.690-05:00Comments on The Fifth Column: Mary Did You Know???Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-47401286857550014962015-12-28T15:25:40.155-06:002015-12-28T15:25:40.155-06:00Sorry - I can't fix stupid.
ALL of your argum...Sorry - I can't fix stupid. <br />ALL of your arguments were addressed. <br />Your "Lord of creation" argument is functionally identical to your "delivered" argument<br />But you aren't smart enough to see that.<br /><br />I don't typically spend time trying to convince Catholic traditionalists of anything, because they tend to be too stupid to discuss anything with. Protestants at least consider the possibility that they are wrong. Traditionalists never do. Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-86280460052167111302015-12-28T14:39:54.498-06:002015-12-28T14:39:54.498-06:00You, a supposedly Catholic apologist, can't of...You, a supposedly Catholic apologist, can't offer a stronger argument than an <i>ad hominem</i>?Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-27193614543298050942015-12-28T14:35:19.116-06:002015-12-28T14:35:19.116-06:00You didn't address whether it is correct or no...You didn't address whether it is correct or not to say He "will one day rule the nations."Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-92014853872678754302015-12-28T13:33:29.060-06:002015-12-28T13:33:29.060-06:00She did not require instruction that the Incarnati...She did not require instruction that the Incarnation would occur; she knew it would, even before the Annunciation.<br /><br />"This child that you've delivered, will soon deliver you" implies she has not yet been delivered. It would be correct to say: "This child that you've delivered, has delivered you."<br /><br />Also, He "is Lord of all creation" yet "will [<i>future tense</i>] one day rule the nations"? This is something a Jew, who still expects the Messiah to come (e.g., at the time of what Christians call the Second Coming), would agree with.Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-76717068680501254182015-12-28T11:47:43.276-06:002015-12-28T11:47:43.276-06:00Re-read your Summa reference. In the replies, you ...Re-read your Summa reference. In the replies, you will see that Thomas himself asserted Mary "required instruction" concerning the Incarnation. <br /><br />The Incarnation is NOT the Paschal Mystery. If she required instruction concerning the Incarnation, then so much more the Paschal Mystery. Consequently, we can be fairly certain that she was not fully aware, at the Nativity, of the coming Paschal Mystery.<br /><br />But this conversation misses the point of the essay. There is no theological error in "Mary, Did You Know?" A series of reasonable questions are asked, none are answered, thus no error.<br /><br />Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-73826093513031896202015-12-28T11:09:38.933-06:002015-12-28T11:09:38.933-06:00What do you mean "We do not know when it was ...What do you mean "We do not know when it was revealed to Mary"? If you do not know <i>when</i> it was revealed to her, how do you even know <i>whether</i> it was revealed to her at all?<br /><br />She know since the moment of her existence, being full of grace, having the virtue of faith to a higher degree than any creature, and also from reading Holy Scripture. She even knew she would be the Mother of God <i>before</i> St. Gabriel announced it to her (cf. <a href="http://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/TP/TP030.html#TPQ30A1THEP1" rel="nofollow"><i>Summa</i> III q. 30 a. 1</a>).<br /><br />Also, <a href="http://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/SS/SS001.html#SSQ1A4THEP1" rel="nofollow">faith is the assent of the <i>intellect</i> to that which is believed</a>, and <a href="http://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/SS/SS083.html#SSQ83A1THEP1" rel="nofollow">faith is <i>not</i> an appetitive power</a>.Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-10976681314380045802015-12-28T11:08:24.863-06:002015-12-28T11:08:24.863-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-78583533695396952672015-12-28T09:47:05.957-06:002015-12-28T09:47:05.957-06:00The Paschal Mystery is a supernatural truth that c...The Paschal Mystery is a supernatural truth that can be known only through the revelation of God. We do not know when it was revealed to Mary. Thus, asking when it was revealed to Mary (which is what the song does) is perfectly appropriate, even though essentially unanswerable.<br /><br />Intellects don't pray, PERSONS do. Angels are persons. When we say "Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us", we do not mean to ask an organ of her body to pray for us. In some cultures, the liver stands for the person, in our tradition, the heart stands for the person. There is no tradition in our culture of saying "Intellect, pray for us", therefore it is inappropriate. Even using the larger sobriquet of "mind" is not what is done in the Catholic Faith. Thus, we say "Jesus, pray for us" or "Holy Spirit, pray for us" but we don't say "Divine Mind, pray for us" or "Divine Mind, hear our prayer."Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-66655048560338241192015-12-27T22:48:59.525-06:002015-12-27T22:48:59.525-06:00Yes, that's true.Yes, that's true.Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-86265393128333892522015-12-27T22:48:44.588-06:002015-12-27T22:48:44.588-06:00The Paschal Mystery is not a naturally knowable tr...<i>The Paschal Mystery is not a naturally knowable truth.</i><br />She didn't just know the naturally knowable truths.<br /><br /><i>Mary was not omniscient.</i><br />Yes, that's true. For example, she didn't behold the Beatific Vision while on earth, so certainly she doesn't comprehend God as the Persons of the Holy Trinity do.<br /><br /><i>Thus Mary observed the daily life of her Divine Son, and grew in His knowledge and love by meditating on what she saw and heard</i><br />Yes, she progressed spiritually.<br /><br /><br /><i>intellects don't pray, PERSONS do.</i><br />Why can we say "Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us"?<br /><br /><a href="http://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/SS/SS083.html#SSQ83A1THEP1" rel="nofollow">Prayer is an act of reason</a> (thus of the intellect) and <a href="http://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/SS/SS083.html#SSQ83A10THEP1" rel="nofollow">is proper to a rational creature</a>. The Latin word for "prayer," <i>oratio</i>, means "spoken reason" [<i>oris ratio</i>].<br /><br />Angels, who are pure intellects, certainly pray.<br /><br />A human is his body and soul. <a href="http://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/FP/FP076.html#FPQ76A3THEP1" rel="nofollow">A human soul <i>is</i> his intellectual soul.</a> Therefore, a human can in a way be said to be his intellect.Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-91956642565114039222015-12-27T21:57:53.496-06:002015-12-27T21:57:53.496-06:00Further, the song does not assert she did NOT know...Further, the song does not assert she did NOT know, it merely asks if she did. Which is a perfectly reasonable question. Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-66507972849823176952015-12-27T21:51:30.050-06:002015-12-27T21:51:30.050-06:00The Paschal Mystery is not a naturally knowable tr...The Paschal Mystery is not a naturally knowable truth.<br />Mary was not omniscient.<br />The need for the Paschal Mystery would not, necessarily, have been obvious.<br />As the <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm" rel="nofollow">Catholic Encyclopedia</a> points out " "Mary kept all these words, pondering them in her heart". Thus Mary observed the daily life of her Divine Son, and grew in His knowledge and love by meditating on what she saw and heard."<br /><br /><br />Also, intellects don't pray, PERSONS do.<br /><br />Steve Kellmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509461318016670424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-62708912956713243922015-12-27T15:55:49.327-06:002015-12-27T15:55:49.327-06:00What's worse about that song is that it portra...What's worse about that song is that it portrays Our Blessed Virgin Mother in typical Protestant fashion: as an ignorant girl.<br /><br />Of course she knew! She was without original sin; thus, she was born without ignorance. She knew—more than any other human being—all the naturally knowable truths, all of the senses of Holy Scriptures, and all that which is knowable from Faith.<br /><br />May the <a href="http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=38002" rel="nofollow"><i>Immaculate Intellect</i></a> of the Blessed Virgin Mary pray for us!Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-82001274756106485022015-12-11T17:35:36.932-06:002015-12-11T17:35:36.932-06:00If you're at all interested in knowing . . . t...If you're at all interested in knowing . . . the Catholic Dogma . . . that we *must believe* to get to Heaven . . . <br /><br />I list it on my website > > > www.Gods-Catholic-Dogma.com<br /><br />The Catholic God knows . . . what we think and believe . . .<br /><br />Catholic writing of Romans 1:21 > <br />"They ... became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened."<br /><br />Catholic Faith (pre-fulfillment) writing of Deuteronomy 31:21 > <br />"For I know their thoughts, and what they are about to do this day."<br /><br />Catholic Faith (pre-fulfillment) writing of Job 21:27 > <br />"Surely I know your thoughts, and your unjust judgments against Me."Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16461431542126250213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-21697722567392577702015-12-11T12:07:43.891-06:002015-12-11T12:07:43.891-06:00Both of those are better than some of the stuff th...Both of those are better than some of the stuff that is sung during Communion, for instance "I Myself Am the Bread of Life"!Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05968810669834802481noreply@blogger.com