tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post6410313984372348873..comments2024-03-20T16:30:09.690-05:00Comments on The Fifth Column: The Ax Gets LaidUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-9482038598351567272009-01-30T13:00:00.000-06:002009-01-30T13:00:00.000-06:00Seen this? http://www.demographicwinter.com/index....Seen this? http://www.demographicwinter.com/index.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-28848753793886834612009-01-08T14:09:00.000-06:002009-01-08T14:09:00.000-06:00What can contraception really do to a marriage, es...<I>What can contraception really do to a marriage, especially in a negative or detrimental way? I don't understande this comment at all???</I><BR/><BR/>Contraception corrodes the marital bond, since it means the spouses are holding an important part of themselves back when they had promised each other to give of themselves totally and unreservedly. It also reconstitutes the marriage's purpose as providing fulfillment to the man and/or the wife rather than providing a nurturing, loving foundation and environment for life-giving love: a love that gives life not just to children but to the spouses.<BR/><BR/>http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/edwardpsri/loveandresponsibility/11.asp<BR/><BR/><I>I guess I can imagine a situation where a husband wants another child and the wife doesn't, so maybe conflict could arise, but really what marriage suffers strife from a latex condom???</I><BR/><BR/>Millions of them do. My parents' marriage sure did.<BR/><BR/><I>And Jordanes, what are you talking about "our women" and "poisening" them making them infertile?</I><BR/><BR/>Contraceptive drugs are poisons. They are chemicals designed to make a woman's body sick so that her reproductive system is incapable of functioning properly.<BR/><BR/><I>Is this a particular group of your girlfriends?</I><BR/><BR/>There's no call for such insults here. Sticks to issues and ideas, and do not attack persons.<BR/><BR/><I>It is true that promiscuity leads to infertility in women, but is pretty negligible unless your talking about a lot of partners</I><BR/><BR/>Contraception makes women infertile too. That's why women take contraceptives: so that they will be infertile and thus not conceive children when they have sex.<BR/><BR/><I>but either way its her body and her choices to have sex, not yours or mine or any other mans.</I><BR/><BR/>Sure is convenient for us men when she chooses to take contraceptive poisons. Anyway no one has complete moral authority to do with their bodies as they please. We may choose to do evil with our bodies, but if we do we will have to give an account for it now and in the next life. No one can escape the consequences of their sins.<BR/><BR/><I>The choice of having or not having sex is largely a womens, men play the role of pawns.</I><BR/><BR/>On the contrary, men have been pretty successful at convincing women to have sex.<BR/><BR/><I>To this extent men control the choice of staying with an individual for life, also known as marriage.</I><BR/><BR/>Yep, it is often the case that men have fewer familial burdens when a marriage ends: usually the mother keeps the kids, and the man has to pay child support but can move on to a new sexual partner.<BR/><BR/><I>Either way a chunk of the people I knew who took the virginity pledge in HS were pregnent the next semester or were already widely known to have given it up and wore their pledge ring as a fashion statement, seems to me its about as useless as reclaiming your viginity.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, virginity pledges are probably not going to do much to improve matters. "Reclaiming virginity" isn't useless, though -- repenting of sexual immorality is always a good thing.Confiteborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17951083063448447552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-23647684768012354792009-01-08T13:34:00.000-06:002009-01-08T13:34:00.000-06:00First Things has an insightful little comment on t...First Things has an insightful little comment on this "study":<BR/><BR/>http://www.firstthings.com/blog/2009/01/07/religious-teens-differ-little-in-sexual-behavior-whether-or-not-they-take-a-pledge/Confiteborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17951083063448447552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-49187827152581505692009-01-06T04:18:00.000-06:002009-01-06T04:18:00.000-06:00"Isn't it a lot more likely that these kids had a ..."Isn't it a lot more likely that these kids had a pretty negative view of contraception even before the training, which is why they took the pledge? Isn't it possible they saw what contraception was doing to the marriages their own parents were involved in and didn't really like the results?"<BR/><BR/>What can contraception really do to a marriage, especially in a negative or detrimental way? I don't understande this comment at all??? I guess I can imagine a situation where a husband wants another child and the wife doesn't, so maybe conflict could arise, but really what marriage suffers strife from a latex condom??? And Jordanes, what are you talking about "our women" and "poisening" them making them infertile? Is this a particular group of your girlfriends? It is true that promiscuity leads to infertility in women, but is pretty negligible unless your talking about a lot of partners, but either way its her body and her choices to have sex, not yours or mine or any other mans. The choice of having or not having sex is largely a womens, men play the role of pawns. To this extent men control the choice of staying with an individual for life, also known as marriage. Either way a chunk of the people I knew who took the virginity pledge in HS were pregnent the next semester or were already widely known to have given it up and wore their pledge ring as a fashion statement, seems to me its about as useless as reclaiming your viginity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-35272322584337577392009-01-03T08:29:00.000-06:002009-01-03T08:29:00.000-06:00Could one conclude from this study that we should ...Could one conclude from this study that we should be teaching our young people more conservative & religious beliefs to keep them from having sex before marriage? After all, if this is a more determinative factor than abstinence pledges, we should follow where the science leads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-59752208939926282472008-12-31T10:42:00.000-06:002008-12-31T10:42:00.000-06:00This is one of the reasons why the rest of us (the...<I>This is one of the reasons why the rest of us (the rest of the world) cant wait for the American Empire to pass.</I><BR/><BR/>Amazing! Every single non-American on earth thinks the EXACT SAME THING! And our Somebody-or-other here knows what they think!<BR/><BR/>But perhaps you can clarify why they can't wait for the alleged American Empire to pass. Is it because our teenagers can't keep it in their pants, or because not enough of our young unmarried men wear latex sheaths on their reproductive apparatus, or because America has at times made a few tax dollars available to finance efforts to encourage young people to remain chaste until marriage, or what?<BR/><BR/><I>Virginity pledges by teens. You don't need to be a scientist to understand the futility of that.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, because everybody knows that all teens fornicate. (Well, at least they do if they are strongly encouraged to do so, as they are in modern America and elsewhere in what used to be called Western civilisation.)Confiteborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17951083063448447552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-23288588945234726282008-12-31T10:11:00.000-06:002008-12-31T10:11:00.000-06:00This is one of the reasons why the rest of us (the...This is one of the reasons why the rest of us (the rest of the world) cant wait for the American Empire to pass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-15392429695288386282008-12-31T07:55:00.000-06:002008-12-31T07:55:00.000-06:00It seems to me that the underlying problem with bo...It seems to me that the underlying problem with both "virginity pledges" and contraceptive use is the same problem as in many other areas. Parents have turned their authority as the primary educators of their children over to the schools and government programs. Abstinence, taught on a moral basis rather than a health basis, works because kids are taught that their bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and should be kept pure and that sex is something that is between married couples, as God planned it. No where in that approach does it talk about sexually transmitted diseases, condom use, etc. So, if your whole premise is to keep the young person safe then the most important thing to keep safe is the welfare of their immortal soul. If, however, your purpose is to denigrate the human person and put them on the same level as animals, then you use the same arguments that they have been using for illegal drugs - they are going to do it anyway, so let's make it (1) easier, (2) safer, (3) legal - choose your option and fill in the blank. Why not use that same argument for stealing, rape, or murder - oh yeah, they do use it for murder only they call it a "choice".Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05968810669834802481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-78932863318591675822008-12-31T03:05:00.000-06:002008-12-31T03:05:00.000-06:00Virginity pledges by teens. You don't need to be a...Virginity pledges by teens. You don't need to be a scientist to understand the futility of that. Very sad that such programs get tax payer money to start with.Eelco Hilleniushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18171935814979500631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-54799331027187299882008-12-31T02:48:00.000-06:002008-12-31T02:48:00.000-06:00Some nameless individual said: Your overarching po...Some nameless individual said: <I>Your overarching point seems to be that the use of contraception had no connection to virginity pledges.</I><BR/><BR/>Since he didn't make that point at all, we can be pretty confident that that isn't his overarching point.<BR/><BR/><I>Your reasoning that if the teens ignored the virginity pledge they must have ignored the information on contraception as well is ludicrous.</I><BR/><BR/>Ludicrous might be a good word to describe your straw man misreading of what he said.<BR/><BR/><I>Frankly these teens are having sex because it feels good</I><BR/><BR/>You're talking about "teens," but the study is primarily talking about young adults in the 20s. Also, there are probably more reasons why they are fornicating besides "it feels good."<BR/><BR/><I>if their information on contraception has been slanted then they are less likely to use them.</I><BR/><BR/>They also might be less likely to use them if they're told the truth about contraception, which sex education does not do.<BR/><BR/><I>Sex feeling good has no baring on condom use.</I><BR/><BR/>No "baring," eh? Calling Dr. Freud. But really, sex feeling good certainly does have bearing on non-use of condoms, since sex doesn't feel as good when you use a condom. That's one of the big reasons why people generally prefer to poison our women to make them barren rather than trying to slip a sheath of latex on the male member.<BR/><BR/><I>As to Jordanes, I am sorry but you are just flat wrong. Behavioural models from practical survey results can be generated in 5 years quite easily.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, whoever you are, but you are just flat wrong. Good, useful longitudinal studies take far longer than 5 years to do. There's no way to control for all the variables that might account for the behavior with just a 5 year "shortitudinal" study.<BR/><BR/><I>Given the length of time that sexual education is give is 4 years</I><BR/><BR/>An unjustifiable assumption.<BR/><BR/><I>and that abstinence only has been around for longer than that, your point is invalid.</I><BR/><BR/>Given the fact that human sexual development begins prior to and apart from whatever a public school might say or do, your point is meaningless.<BR/><BR/><I>Unless you know of a school system that begins teaching sex ed in kindergarten your assertion that no study can tell us its effectiveness is just plain wrong.</I><BR/><BR/>Again with the straw man fallacy. I didn't say that no study can tell us its effectiveness, I said that THIS study does not tell us its effectiveness. Anyway sex education begins at home, not at school, usually thanks to harmful images on broadcast television, but chiefly through attitudes, messages, and behavior modeled by the parents (or more often than not these days, by the single mother and her string of boyfriends).Confiteborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17951083063448447552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-75169534236372917212008-12-31T00:03:00.000-06:002008-12-31T00:03:00.000-06:00So your logical attack on this study seems to miss...So your logical attack on this study seems to miss many key points. Your overarching point seems to be that the use of contraception had no connection to virginity pledges. Your reasoning that if the teens ignored the virginity pledge they must have ignored the information on contraception as well is ludicrous. Frankly these teens are having sex because it feels good, if their information on contraception has been slanted then they are less likely to use them. Sex feeling good has no baring on condom use.<BR/><BR/>As to Jordanes, I am sorry but you are just flat wrong. Behavioural models from practical survey results can be generated in 5 years quite easily. Given the length of time that sexual education is give is 4 years, and that abstinence only has been around for longer than that, your point is invalid. Unless you know of a school system that begins teaching sex ed in kindergarten your assertion that no study can tell us its effectiveness is just plain wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5774317.post-6687508449730584782008-12-30T23:12:00.000-06:002008-12-30T23:12:00.000-06:00Well, what immediately jumped out at me was that t...Well, what immediately jumped out at me was that this alleged "longitudinal" study lasted only FIVE YEARS! In other words, this is pseudoscience, sheer phlebotomistic quackery. When looking at human behavior of children and adolescents as they grow, longitudinal studies that last less than 15 years are rubbish -- to really learn anything you need to start the study when the children are small and follow them until they're in their early 20s. No abstinence program has been functioning that long, so there is no scientific study that can tell us if, or what kind of, abstinence program works.Confiteborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17951083063448447552noreply@blogger.com